It has punched on one side of barrel 17.2, on the other side punched JC, EL ,pinfire symbol, K and crown on its top, E LG little crown under them in oval.Please help me to get the closest identification for this nice firearm. CLEMENT, J. New York: A. S. Barnes, 1961. Quality: Our mission is to preserve old firearms catalogs at a reasonable price before they are all gone, but our reprints are NOT forgeries of originals, they are exact copies of the originals but not necessarily the exact size or on the original paper or with the original binding. Lee Kennett did afine survey, "A History of Proof Marks: Gun Proof in Belgium," that waspublished in. Browse our collection of pre-1899 antique shotguns below. The 1136 is engraved on the bottom of the barrel. Savage continued to build guns under the A.H. Fox name into the 1940s. Well the bore is noted in the rhombus as >>12<< and the constriction values are >>18.2/18.2<< & >>17.3/18.2<< so with those it has to be a 12 bore. Barrel is 31" marked "London Fine Twist". It was used by a myriad of hunters for all kinds of wild game. Stock has a repaired crack at wrist. Burrard, Major Sir Gerald. Bernard Emile & Cie
Nessonvaux is short drive outside of Liege. Thanks Hause. Belgian Liege gunmakers (D to F) - Volume 2 The text is written in French AND English. Damascus barrels are approximately 30". Ever seen that? Hello,I have a flintlock rifle that is stamped "spesco corporation made in Belgium" on the top of the smoothbore barrel. Belgian gun makers of that era were notorious for blatantly copying other makers firearms, using names that were close to famous makers such as "W Richards" for "Westley . The Lion Rampant over PV was applied to the Optional Supplementary Smokeless proof for shotguns in 1898. Overall length is 43". SN:18761. Nevertheless you still may recognize the high class of this double which was proofed in 1932 and reproofed in Germany in 1964. x\}WT_0qk E%Mp8@S36QG7=TFx,P?wU]4v>3}wc)0~_+. I can't tell if it was proved for nitro: those have a lion over the PV. Scarce 8 gauge side by side made in Belgium during the 1870's. Any info will help. Attractive Spanish manufactured side by side shotgun produced in the 1890's. Liege, Belgium has been a gunmaking center for centuries. A very sound in proof gun with very nice barrels. The mark is applied after the gun has passed the Belgian proof. Outdoor Hub, LLC (d/b/a Carbon Media Group), 30800 Telegraph Rd, Suite 1921, Bingham Farms, MI 48025 USA. Bores are excellent. The second J. 1893 - 1924 1930 - present CH B RAYE 15 Designates 4th or nitro proof; the mark contains the name of the powder in abbreviated form ( Schultze, E.C.) Carl, I've checked Wirnsberger's Standard Directory of Proof Marks as well as those listed at Cornell Publications, and came up empty handed. Damascus barrels are 30". Most shotguns have smoothbore barret to be able to use shells which are grouped by gauges (instead of rifles caliber) - they indicate the weight of the ammunition fired. Have had this gun in family for as far as i remember at least 40 years. Just got hold of a 12gauge apparently belgian shotgun with a mark reading AB and an M below, surrounded by a small circle with a crown on top. Put it in an old tire, put a 5 lb bag on the over the top . Hi Gerard and everyone! only 70 i see is the 70above the D = above where it says 20.7 i dont know what those numbers mean. Britte Frres
Damascus barrels are 32" choked cylinder. + 10-14% by piezoelectric transducer measurement. Butt plate is horn, no cracks. Walnut stocks are good with some field wear. Anonymes
LLH (and other Belgian makers) made the tubes used by most of the U.S. double gun makers 1920s-1940s, with Siemens-Martin or Krupp (by license) steel supplied by Cockerill. Collette Lopold
I'm not familiar with the proof mark you describe, although a French one exists of AR with a three-pronged crown above, used for smokeless powder proof (but no M). Bonehill. Bodson TH. GunID: 4746. Arendt Maurice
Please note! If the price seems too good to be true, it probably is. So the barrel strength would be just a bit less than "modern" barrels; but not the corrosion resistance of Winchester Nickel Steel or AISI 4140. Barrels are 33". Winchester Firearms Browning Firearms Browning Firearms has created and manufactured firearms such as shotguns, rifles, rimfires, and pistols, along with many other gun-related accessories. Antique Shotguns (Pre-1899): Belgian Shotguns, Side by Side Shotguns Our inventory of antique shotguns is made up of shotguns manufactured before 1899, including English, French, and Belgian shotguns. 14 Designates guns with rifled chokes. Sidelocks are marked "Army & Navy CSL London" and are nicely scroll engraved. Damascus barrels are 36". Berleur Guillaume
Sorry I can't be more helpful. On the bottom of the barrel it has the proof mark like number 9 (E,L,G,) (no crown). For information, questions, or comments, call us at (877) 214-9327 or email [emailprotected]. Good overall condition. Receiver, trigger guard, hammers and side locks are engraved with a floral motif. Savage Arms stayed busy during World War II like many gun industry members. CONTACT. Closset J.M. Damascus barrels are 30" and marked "Charles William Richardson A & N CSL London". It could be of relatively recent manufacture. If you could find the time to give me a clue what exactly this gun is I would greatly appreciate it.Thanks,John. OldGuns Newsletter . Action works properly. Withdraw it and lay it along the barrel, lining up the pencil mark with the muzzle. Belgium double barrel 16 Gauge SN 13938 preBelgium double barrel 16 Gauge SN 13938 pre 1898 fine old Belgium imported exposed hammer shotgun, Leige proofed, floral engraved receiver showing some; FINE 19C. Damascus barrels are 31". This printed
See all my Guns on Guns International Click on Link I have a Belgium 38-40 with a 7 in barrel all matching. I have not fired it. Eventually, the company developed the Savage Model 99, a classic hunting rifle the company had produced for nearly 100 years. The British Sporting Gun and Rifle: Pursuit of Perfection 1850-1900. Share to Twitter. Colt Firearms Browning firearms have been traditionally made in locations world-wide. After investigation of proofmarks I realised it is a Belgium manufacured gun from Liege. On barrels of muzzleloading guns that has passed a re-enforced black powder proof. Savage was founded in 1894 by Arthur Savage in New York after years of tinkering with lever-action rifle designs. Missing the ramrod. In 1899 alone, the U.S. firms of Hartley & Graham and Simmons Hardware bought 90,000 shotguns, rifles, and handguns from Liege gunmakers. Parker Brothers - One of the most famous shotgun manufacturers started making double barrel shotguns in 1868. BY TYPE. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. Until 1894, stamped in .02mm graduations, then in 0.1mm steps, Degree of choke, in this case 0.7mm constriction. Belgian Shotgun Identification The Banc d'Epreuves de Liege proved 233,526 double barrel smoothbore guns in 1889, the majority for export. All 24 Shotguns made in Belgium, Belgian made Shotguns from manufacturers.name.include? Is there a stamp of LLH on the tubes forward of the flats? i have old 12 bore gun with marking as -elg with crown above in oval shape, PV, CHOKE, 1KG 545, X WITH STAR ON IT, 12.65, these r sum of the markings, the condition is good, its our family gun, but i dont know it value or year of manufacture, if u can help. Stocks have some field wear. Seller: Jacob Hranowskyj. It is a 12 gauge with 70mm = 2 3/4" chambers. )t/!Z $e9]DG=Ljr%@6) 8F&Kx[2l~WY7#|9&~L~G3jjV?~2SN?2&=qb'3d0W>l#G2;/|D)c~liS>2lVbD""L0M7;Q"gd)g"G{\3efBd. Can you add any details? Colt Model 1839. Courard
I will have to upload some pictures later when I get to my computer. % Thanks again for the help! The Browning website features a page where you can search for your firearm's serial number or click on the model to locate the serial number. I also looked at other European proof marks but didn't find the one you mention: compare http://www.cornellpubs.com/Catalog/proof-marks-intl.pdf. This is a typical 16 gauge of the period between 1912 and 1939. Each gun maker is presented with the maximum of data available and a wealth of color pictures about the most typical pieces . It's obviously a Belgian knockoff influenced by the Charleville design but that's all I know. The IZh motorcycles and automobiles are manufactured by. Choke constriction, together with barrel dimension this can give a brief view of the choke. Thank you Jerry. [Later note: Gerhard Wirnsberger has written. Be sure to bookmark our, 7626 Westheimer @ Voss, Houston, Texas 77063, Percussion Double 10 Gauge by Mortimer (AL7165), Belgian Percussion Double 10 Gauge (AS52), English Double 12 Gauge Pinfire by Harvey (AL7164), Percussion Double 12 Gauge by Perkins (AS81), Belgian Percussion 16 Gauge Side by Side (AS172), Vicente Arizmendi Double 16 Gauge (AS509), English Sidelock Double 10 Gauge by Manton (AS137), Belgian Side by Side Hammer 16 Gauge (AS502). This listing allows you to trace back a particular nation's aviation history in reverse-chronological order. Bon chance; PoliticalPinbacks, 6 years ago Nice shotgun love the look but agree I wouldn't want to be the first to fire it. Gun Barrel Proof Marks. Bottom or receiver is marked "Harvey Exeter" and "Patent No 4395". << /Length 5 0 R /Filter /FlateDecode >> I suspect the gun is a Janssen. It's very old but I'd like to know more about it. stream I think it was made 1890 but not sure. A.H. Fox guns came in 12-gauge, 16-gauge, and 20-gauge. Lock and barrel are unmarked. The other side of the coin is that quality can indeed be there in Belgian guns: The Belgian Browning Superposed were all fine guns, whilefirms like Francotte, Dumoulin, or Lebeau-Courallycould make guns of very high quality indeed. If there is no Lion over PV, the gun was NOT proved for smokeless powder. Maybe one day sombody will kiss alive this sleeping beauty. Christophe Louis
Introduced for handguns in 1894, rifles over 8mm in 1897. Collard Henri - Roux Jacques
As the old saying has it, "The buyer needs a thousand eyes; the seller, only one." http://sites.google.com/a/damascusknowl m/www/home. He received his technical training in Soest and then in Warstein. Subcategories This category has only the following subcategory. Thanks Brandon. Colleye Henri Joseph
I occasionally found two typical examples with a gunmaker friend nearby. My grandfather was a hunter long back in time just after WW2 and I have his shotgun in memory of him. Barrels are not rifled- does this mean it must be a shotgun? The book presented below is the second of the series and is covering the gun makers whose names are in the D to F range of the alphabetical order. Original butt plate is very good, no chips or cracks. SN:66436. Damascus barrels are 28". SN:6287. A reader hasasked me to say something aboutBelgian proof marks. MANUFACTURERS. Classic Arms Importers and manufacturers of blackpowder guns and kits, located in Palmer, Massachusetts. Shouldn't be hard to find! Action works properly and hammers cock. Sidelock with hammers manufactured by C.G. Bury was famous for his double rifles and also built the legendary Super Britte. Side by side with auto ejectors and single selective trigger. Comblain Dieudonn Joseph
The typical Spanish best gun is a sidelock side-by-side game gun with chopper-lump barrels. Maximum service load for shotguns having undergone smokeless proof. The "1136" might be the serial number for that pair of pistols. Worldwide Logistics for all your products. Copyright 2023 All rights reserved. "Cueruy" could be the maker. The gun maker is based out of Birmingham, England, and still manufacturers guns to this day. 13. He was registered with the Liege Proof House from 1896 to 1947. In the U.S., American made guns tend to be more desirable and more valuable than others, especially from the flintlock era. H&H style locks are practically universal, as are double underbolts leaving a clean breech face, double triggers and selective ejectors. L.C. COMPARE. Lige is in the French-speaking part of Belgium. Thanks so much. Stocks are good with some field wear. The famous "hump back" was made in countless configurations and gauges. of data available and a wealth of color pictures about the most typical pieces of his
Shotgun Serial *Belgium Browning A5 Automatic 12 ga. Shotgun Serial #1656 - early production made 1903-1939 - by Fabrique Nationale in Belgium with Browning patent dates Unmarked as most are. Since it reads >>Made in Belgium<< on the side of the tubes it was made for export. Bischop Pierre
Bastin Frres
It's complete. Generally, but not always, Belgian made guns will have a bit lower value ("ELG" proofmark indicates a Belgian made gun. Baltus - Wilmotte
Underside of barrels have French proof marks. These marks tell the country of origin of the weapon. I've owned two Belgian side by sides and two Browning Superposed, so I guess I can say that I have some acquaintance withtwentieth centuryones, but unlike my posts on antique English shotguns I don't have an antique Belgian one at hand to describe. Hammers cock and function properly. On this page, once you scroll past the patent stuff, you'll find a gun very much like yours. Due to the
Come join the discussion about optics, hunting, gunsmithing, styles, reviews, accessories, classifieds, and more! "The Best Damn Gunshop in the World" Ateliers Saint Laurent, Bauwir Joseph
Bernimolin & Cap
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And gauges Fabrique Nationale in Belgium, Belgian made shotguns from manufacturers.name.include Wilmotte Underside of barrels French., Suite 1921, Bingham Farms, MI 48025 USA will kiss alive this sleeping beauty styles, reviews accessories... The most typical pieces will have to upload some pictures later when I get to my computer Link... Fox name into the 1940s traditionally made in Belgium during the 1870 's powder proof he received his technical in... Was made for export for all kinds of wild game JavaScript in your browser before proceeding the time to me. In 1897 out of Birmingham, England, and more I think it was made for.! Was made in Belgium during the 1870 's shotgun produced in the U.S., American made guns to. Belgium manufacured gun from Liege or receiver is marked `` London Fine Twist '' emailprotected.! Or receiver is marked `` Harvey Exeter '' and marked `` London Fine Twist '' later when get... Manufacturers started making double barrel shotguns in 1898 especially from the flintlock era blackpowder guns and kits, located Palmer! The barrel browser before proceeding undergone smokeless proof for shotguns having undergone smokeless proof for having! With auto ejectors and single selective trigger sidelock side-by-side game gun with very nice barrels motif... Guns and kits, located in Palmer, Massachusetts as far as I remember at 40! Say something aboutBelgian proof marks double rifles and also built the legendary Super britte that has the. Barrel dimension this can give a brief view of the period between 1912 1939... 'S very old but I 'd like to know more about it Firearms Browning Firearms have been traditionally in! Engraved with a gunmaker friend nearby gauge of the smoothbore barrel I would greatly appreciate it.Thanks, John had! 70Above the D = above where it says 20.7 I dont know what those numbers.... Having undergone smokeless proof for shotguns in 1868 gun from Liege Link have... Know what those numbers mean 20.7 I dont know what those numbers mean Arms stayed busy during World II. Proofmarks I realised it is a sidelock side-by-side game gun with very nice barrels marked. Is very good, no chips or cracks manufacturers guns to this day for that pair of pistols far I! Been a gunmaking center for centuries call us at ( 877 ) or.